SaabWay - Il forum degli appassionati Saab italiani

Cari amici / Dear Saab friends in Italy,

maybe you can advise me what to do concerning my problem.


I'm a Saab passionate together with my father since 1986 and we are owning in our family actually a Saab 9000 2.3 turbo S Airflow in odoardogreymetallic MY 1991, a Saab 9-5 Aero MY 2004 in graphitegreenmetallic and a Saab 900 turbo 16 S Airflow Convertible MY 1993 (bought in the Netherlands in 2013 but the car was imported from Italy in 2001).

Last week I bought a wonderful black Saab 900 turbo 16 S in Rome on April 2nd, 2015 to complete our Saab collection. The car is MY 1991 with just 88.900 km on the speedometer and the condition of the car is appropriate to the mileage. So far so good.

When I bought the car I got from the seller the original "Libretto" and just the copy of the "Certificado di Proprieta". The reason for this: The two women in the Automobile Club of Italy in Rome told the seller not to hand out the original CDP and the Italian number plates because he has no chance to sign off the car then from Italian car register when the buyer does not send him back these documents.

As far as I know, it would have been the obligation of the women in the Automobile club of Italy to sign off the car from the Italian register with the information that the car is going into export abroad. Because these women were not informed very well, they told the seller that he can only sign off his car from Italian register when I give him a certificate of correct registration in Germany.

The German registration authorities do need the original CDP and the number plates in order to register the car successfully in Germany. The German authorities will inform then the Italian authorities about the successful registration in Germany. But with no original CDP and Italian number plates which both will be made invalid there is no chance to register the car in Germany.

My problem: Although the seller promised at the Italian automobile club to send the original CDP to me if necessary for registration in Germany, now he refuses to do so and wants to get another 500 Euro for sending me the paper and the number plates.

During the stay at the Italian automobile club I paid 50 Euro for the registration of my name and full address in the CDP and the seller told me that another 300 Euro have to be paid for the final deregistration of the car in Italy. I have agreed to pay him this 300 Euro although now after research on this I have not read about such further costs for deregistration.

My question: Should I transfer 500 Euro to the bank account of the seller, although I do not know if he will keep his promise? Or should I just transfer just 300 Euro as I have promised in the location of the Automobile club? But who gives me certainty that the seller will keep his promise then and send me the CDP and the number plates? The seller first told me that he has sent the CDP by FedEx through 24 hour service paying 68 Euro for it but it seems that he was lying. Nothing arrived yet and know as mentioned he wants to get 500 Euro for his "work" sending the paper and the plates.

Obviously he is playing with me and wants to achieve a higher price for his car in this way. By the way, the car was not cheap, I paid the full price for it (12.900 Euro, price wasn't absolutely not negotiable) and as mentioned the 50 Euro for the registration of my name as buyer of the car on the CDP. The seller is pilote by Allitalia, a really well situated person driving also a Mercedes ML 350 Diesel, also having a Lancia Delta Integrale. His wife drives a Mini Countryman and the seller also told me that some years ago he sold his Jaguar XK8 to the chairman of the Norwegian Jaguar club. Therefore I am really wondering why such a person is playing such a bad game with me.

Can you help me with giving me an advice? Or is there anybody willing to contact the seller and to mediate between him and me?

Thank you very much for your advice in advance.

Christian

Mmmm probably he's playing with you, trying to raise up the price, as you're just saying.
About the export procedures, it's not simple to help you: I think many of us are not so practical about

The 300€ maybe are the cost of the deregistration: I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that's the cost of the "radiazione", and it's necessary to export the car (but I remember it cost less). After that, the plates are detached from the car, so you can apply yours.
To deregistrate a vehicle, plates, "libretto" and CDP are necessary.

In my opinion it's not correct that you still send 500€: you have follow all the instructions and the procedures, so, if I were in you, I would tell to this man that send the CDP and all the correct documents is a his own precise must. it's him who is trying to sell the car, and You have demonstrated your correctness and honesty, paying everything he asked. He has to put you in the conditions to close the deal.

By the way, I don't want to alarm you, but on the web many frauds are prepared by people who say they are aircraft pilots.
Have you ever speak with him, or you've just contact him by e-mail?

Another question: if you could show us some pictures of the car, or could send us the link of the page where the it's shown, we could tell you if that car is "known": in Italy there aren't so many Saab, and probably we know the story of many of them

P.s. sorry for my bad english, I don't write it often

È quella targata PA alla quale hanno rifatto i sedili e il sottotetto a Frosinone. È stata comprata 4/5 mesi fa e portata anche da Natale


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

First forgive my English, i do not use Google translator.
This is my experience and I hope This can help you.
I sold my 9-3 cabrio my 08 in netherlands in 01/2013.
I went to Aci to give back plates and radiate the car for export. It is very important tell clearly that you are exporting and where. This costed me € 98.
Aci gave me back the car booklet after 4/5 days and told me that I must give it to new owner otherwise he was not able to register car in his country.
I don't remember about Cdp (certificato di proprietà), i have only a photocopy of it, but think it was hold by Aci.
New owner come in Italy with temporary plate.
Watch these photos and read what is write on it.
I hope to be helpfull.



Tapatalk

Comunque ha fatto un bel l'affare questo pilota romano, peccato l'auto sia finita all'estero ma d'altronde si sa che finiscono così, anche la mia è stata esportata, figurati!


Tapatalk

Dear Christian, first of all you are welcome in our forum and Congratulations for the collection



I sold my ex-TurboX ( ) for export in the june 2013, but I remember that after a month (from july 2013) in Italy the Laws for the exportation changed.

When I sold my Saab (according the OLD Laws) I gave my plates to PRA (that is the major office that every ACI go to do the deregistration) and they applied a stickers on the "libretto" (like the one that Paolo Lugli shows in his photo). Then, they gave me the CDP (like the one of Paolo).

I gave the Libretto and the CDP to the buyer, and he registered the car in his State (Lituania).

For the cost for the Deregistration, I remember about 58 (...or 68....) euros, but going to the PRA instead of ACI, the fee for their work weren't applicated.


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I know that, after chages about the Laws, if I export the car today, I will send the car with the plates and the libretto and they leave the car only when it will register in the new State, and the buyer return them to the seller that will go to ACI (or PRA) to complete the deregistration.

I don't know how much really costs to do the deregistration in ACI, but I think that 500 euros is very expensive.

Hope it helps

giuseppe122 ha scritto:È quella targata PA alla quale hanno rifatto i sedili e il sottotetto a Frosinone. È stata comprata 4/5 mesi fa e portata anche da Natale


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

Yes, that's right. The leather seats were refurbished for 600 Euros (I got a receipt over that) but the suede inserts were overpainted in buffalo. The car was first registered in Palermo.

If you can tell me more about the history of the car, I would be thankful.

Paolo Lugli ha scritto:Comunque ha fatto un bel l'affare questo pilota romano, peccato l'auto sia finita all'estero ma d'altronde si sa che finiscono così, anche la mia è stata esportata, figurati!


Tapatalk

Yes, it is sure that an Italian buyer would not spend so much money for the car and also for sure the pilot did a really good deal. Therefore I cannot understand why he cannot stop to boost the price of the car with such tricks.

O.k. I understand that you are sad about a further SAAB which disappears from Italian streets, but believe me it is in really cherishing Saab lover hands.

Paolo Lugli ha scritto:First forgive my English, i do not use Google translator.
This is my experience and I hope This can help you.
I sold my 9-3 cabrio my 08 in netherlands in 01/2013.
I went to Aci to give back plates and radiate the car for export. It is very important tell clearly that you are exporting and where. This costed me € 98.
Aci gave me back the car booklet after 4/5 days and told me that I must give it to new owner otherwise he was not able to register car in his country.
I don't remember about Cdp (certificato di proprietà), i have only a photocopy of it, but think it was hold by Aci.
New owner come in Italy with temporary plate.
Watch these photos and read what is write on it.
I hope to be helpfull.
...

Dear Paolo,

thank you very much for the information and the papers. Of course it was very helpful.

Thank you again.

vinsempre ha scritto:Dear Christian, first of all you are welcome in our forum and Congratulations for the collection








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I know that, after chages about the Laws, if I export the car today, I will send the car with the plates and the libretto and they leave the car only when it will register in the new State, and the buyer return them to the seller that will go to ACI (or PRA) to complete the deregistration.

I don't know how much really costs to do the deregistration in ACI, but I think that 500 euros is very expensive.

Hope it helps

Thank you for the congratulation to my fathers and my Saab collection.

Can you please explain the procedure after changing the law? Is it now not possible to deregistrate the car for export until a registration in another EU country was successful?

The problem is that succesful registration in Germany is not possible without original Libretto and CDP and the seller gave me just the original Libretto, but he has the number plates and the original CDP and wants to have 500 Euros for sending them to me.

And I cannot trust the seller that he really will send me the documents after I have paid the amount.

This is the new law but I 'm not able to translate, but I can tell that new law need fisrt selling contract, exportation and new registration abroad (new plate) than seller can radiate car in Italy.
http://www.aci.it/i-servizi/guide-utili ... zione.html


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk

Paolo Lugli ha scritto:This is the new law but I 'm not able to translate, but I can tell that new law need fisrt selling contract, exportation and new registration abroad (new plate) than seller can radiate car in Italy.
http://www.aci.it/i-servizi/guide-utili ... zione.html


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk

Dear Paolo,

thank you very much for this very very interesting link.

We will translate it with a member of the German Saab Forum, who was born in Rome and who speaks German also very well.

Update for my Italian Saab-friends, if you are interested:

Today I received the original CDP. Although it was sent on 9 April 2015 via 24 hour delivery, it arrived only today at my address.

German authorities do not need the Italian number plates, if I can present a certification from Italy that the number plates where handed over to ACI (or PRA).

There is a little more hope now that we will get the Saab registered in Germany!

Well done!


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

Let us informed, and then you post pics of your Saab